Low Dose Immunotherapy with Karen Callagy, PA-C and Amy Ray, FNP

Episode 61

Podcast Drop Date: 

7/9/2025

What if healing your immune system wasn’t about suppressing it, but retraining it? In this episode, host Amber Warren, PA-C, sits down with Functional Medicine of Idaho providers Karen Callagy, PA-C, and Amy Ray, FNP, to dive into Low Dose Immunotherapy (LDI), a cutting-edge therapy gaining momentum for treating allergies, chronic infections, and autoimmune conditions.

They break down how LDI helps create immunological tolerance, teaching the immune system to stop overreacting to everyday triggers like foods, environmental allergens, and microbes. You’ll learn how it works, how it differs from traditional immunotherapy, and hear real-life success stories from the clinic. This episode is your guide to understanding how LDI is changing the game in functional medicine.

Transcript:

Amber Warren, PA-C: Welcome to the Functional Medicine Foundation's podcast, where we explore root-cause medicine, engage in conversation with functional and integrative medicine experts, and build community with like minded health seekers. I'm your host, Amber Warren. Let's dig deeper. Welcome back everybody. Today we have Karen, Karen and Amy. Amy and Karen. These are our OGs at our Boise clinic. Uh, we used to all work together at the Boise clinic, and we have so many amazing memories. That's not what this podcast episode was about. As much as I wish we could do much fun, giggle for 45 minutes and share our past memories at the OG Boise Clinic.

Amber Warren, PA-C: But today we're here to talk about LDI. So very quickly. Karen is a board certified physician assistant specializing in autoimmune diseases, thyroid diseases, and gut health. She studied at Penn State University and then pursued her master's in PA at Arizona School of Health Sciences. She practiced family medicine until 2014, where she discovered functional medicine. She has her IFM certification and has been in functional medicine, been with functional Medicine in Idaho for over seven years.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Amy is a board Certified nurse practitioner with over 20 years of experience in healthcare. She specializes in autoimmune diseases, gut health, and hormone balancing, providing personalized care to help her patients achieve optimal wellness. She studied at UC Davis and earned her master's degree from the MDH Institute of Health Professions. She has been part of Functional Medicine Idaho for over seven years. Those dates aren't accurate. You've been with FMI for longer.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Um, were you purchased it? Because I'm.

Amber Warren, PA-C: No longer. Oh, that's true.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: But I worked for Gail. I've been ten years. I've been in the office.

Amber Warren, PA-C: I was going to say you were there. You were there before me. Okay. Welcome to the podcast.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Thanks for having us!

Amber Warren, PA-C: Okay. So we have to start with so I mentioned LDI, um, as the topic of our podcast this evening, but we have to break that down. Low Dose Immunotherapy. What is that?

Karen Callagy, PA-C: So LDI is a tool we use to create immunological tolerance. So what does that mean? Means we're trying to help one's immune system stop overreacting to triggers. And those triggers could be pollens. They could be food. It could be viruses, bacteria in our gut. So internal antigens or external antigens, such as what we call just regular allergies.

Amber Warren, PA-C: And I probably should have started you to have a specialty certification in LDI. This isn't just something that anybody and everybody as a health care practitioner could do.

Amy Ray, FNP: We've both gone to.

Amber Warren, PA-C: You guys were trained.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yes, we've been trained with Ty Vincent. He's the one who started LDI and I've done a couple conferences with him.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Cool. Okay. You guys are offering this, I know we'll probably get to this, but you're offering this out of the Boise clinic now.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yes.

Amber Warren, PA-C: You guys are doing this. Awesome. Yep. Did you have anything to add to LDI? And.

Amy Ray, FNP: Um, no, that it was just, uh, it started kind of derived from something called LDA, which is low dose allergen therapy, and it's been around since the 60s. And then Dr. Vincent kind of coined the phrase, um, LDI low dose immunotherapy, which is what we do, um, in 2014. So he just kind of started experimenting with it and found that it worked. It worked. Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: So how has this differ from just regular allergy treatment or therapies that you would go receive at an allergist office for instance.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: So allergen immunotherapy or allergy shots really kind of build on each other. And you're stuck doing those for multiple years, generally once a week or twice a week for one to even five years, I believe. And the results are it just depends. Right. They're not all they're not all positive response sometimes works temporarily and then the allergies come back. So LDI is different because what we're striving to find is an effective or core dose that mitigates your symptoms, symptoms for up to 6 or 7 weeks. And they don't build. It's not a cumulative effect. The dose we choose, it'll either work or it won't. So it's trial and error to determine what's working. And we do that based on their symptoms. Okay. Okay. And it's different than an antihistamine obviously because you're not taking a pill every day to control your symptoms. It's not working on the level of the histamine. It's working on the level of our immune system, our immune cells, our T cells.

Amber Warren, PA-C: So just completely different mechanism of action on how we're trying to attack that response. That allergen hyper responsive body.

Amy Ray, FNP: It is similar to, its not exactly but similar to homeopathy. And that really it's um, LDI is sending a, a signal to your immune system and basically teaching it not to overreact to things in your environment.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Okay. But it's not actually lowering immune function, I think.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: It does not suppress the immune system.

Amber Warren, PA-C: I think there's a myth out there that it just lowers immune function like biologics do for autoimmune disease.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: That's why it's so great.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah, because it doesn't do.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: That doesn't suppress your immune system. It's comprised of sterile water and proteins of antigens. That is it. There's nothing else in it.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah. So it's really almost a shoot. What's the word for it. Um, kind of an energy level to it is how it's been described.

Amber Warren, PA-C: I love that.

Amy Ray, FNP: And like, Dr. Vincent kind of says that our immune system has, like, four legs to it, basically. So, um, you know, failure of external defenses gives you infection. Failure of internal defenses kind of gives you cancer. Failure of, um, external tolerances is allergies and failure of internal tolerances is autoimmune issues. And so, um, LDI does not affect the the defense part of our immune system at all. It only is working towards teaching the immune system tolerance. And so um, it's really cool that it just doesn't have that that side effect of decreasing the immune system at all.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Which makes it incredibly safe for newborns, pregnant women, anybody anybody can do LDI.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah. So it really goes. So how would you answer the question how it it totally fits within our approach of root cause medicine.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah it does in that, um, basically it's trying to to kind of come up with a way for you to not have to eliminate things out of your, you know, avoid, um, things like, you know.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Certain foods.

Amy Ray, FNP: Certain foods or, um, things in the environment.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Or even other allergens that you need to avoid.

Amy Ray, FNP: Um, and that it is, again, kind of working on that immune system to go back to a normal state of tolerance. I always think of it or tell patients like you and I can be outside and the pollen is crazy and I can be totally fine, but your immune system is thinking that it's under attack. And so LDI is kind of bringing.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Just saying, hey, don't like like don't be on fire. Just calm down.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Okay.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Yeah. It's changed a little bit how we view internal infections when you talk about root cause, generally in functional medicine, what we're doing is let's order stool testing, comprehensive analysis or toxin testing. Food sensitivity testing. We don't have to do that. Yeah, we are doing this based on symptoms, known symptoms that correlate with certain problems. And then we're choosing an LDI to eradicate the symptom.

Amber Warren, PA-C: So who's like a who's who's the best candidate for this type of treatment. Everybody okay. Everybody's struggling with the reactivity to something in their environment.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yes. So whether that's an autoimmune issue or an inflammatory response or an allergic response.

Amber Warren, PA-C: But don't you have to know what your body's reacting to to benefit from it?

Amy Ray, FNP: To a certain degree.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: To a degree. Right. So let's give you an example.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Joint pain.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Okay.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: How many things cause joint pain? Well, we've got Lyme, we've got yeast, we've got food. We've got hormones or lack of, I mean, gluten, all of these things. So when someone comes to us with joint pain, we're trying to decipher. And they're a big piece to this puzzle, right? They might say, oh, well, when I eat this, I get this or this time of the month right before my menstrual cycle. I get joint pain. And so they're helping us do this detective work.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Investigation.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: To figure out where to start. And sometimes you go through a whole 4 or 5 food LDI. And that that wasn't it. That didn't do it. So maybe after the next one we try yeast or we try hormone.

Amy Ray, FNP: So there is a bit of a because you have to find the right antigen and the right dose. So it's definitely not a like sometimes I've hit the nail on the head right away and it's like, all right. They feel amazing.

Amy Ray, FNP: You know. And sometimes it can take quite a while of digging. And we go through history and like what might have started, um, you know, what was going on when your symptoms started. And that's a way for us to kind of start.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Well, you guys are unique because you're trained. I mean, you're such brilliant functional medicine providers. So you're working on root cause, but also can help alleviate the symptoms pretty quickly if, if you have a pretty good target regarding LDI treatment. So that's pretty cool.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Well for years we were knowing that this was such a great modality, but we weren't doing it and we were referring hundreds. Yeah, hundreds of people. Yeah. And so one of the local providers who I was seeing as well. Um, he just kept saying, Karen, go, go, go. Go get trained. Yeah. So I'm grateful that.

Amber Warren, PA-C: And you guys are thankful you did because you felt it. Yeah. Very beneficial.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: So beneficial. There are there's a subset of the population, for whatever reason, that are non-responders, and it doesn't work for them. We don't know what. We don't know why. Yeah. Maybe 20%, I think, is what Dr. Vincent has.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Oh, that's higher than I would think. 1 in 5.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: But it's also important to have a good optimal vitamin D level. He recommends at least 80. Oh, wow. Which goes, you know, some people say you shouldn't get too high. It depends on who you're speaking with. So I always tell my patients, you know, let's make sure before you take the first dose. If your D is.

Amber Warren, PA-C: You're not a 30 Am.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Let's let's work on that for a month before we move on.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Um, so when are you. So this kind of segways into this or. Actually, it relates a lot to what we were talking about. When do you decide to intervene with LDI as opposed to bioidentical HRT, gut repair protocols, detoxification vacation protocols, supplements.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: It doesn't take the place. I would say, you know, especially with HRT. We know so many pros for doing that for perimenopausal postmenopausal women. Um, specifically. So if that's necessary, this does not take the place of HRT. It doesn't take the place of a, you know, opening up the liver pathways and doing detox, things like that. Um, it doesn't take the place. It's an adjunct. And sometimes it's enough to get people feeling a little bit better, especially if it's food reactions and we can calm down their immune system a little bit, and their inflammation to where they're more motivated to make all the lifestyle modifications.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Is what we're trying to do? If I could just get you sleeping.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Yes.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah. Then you'd be motivated to make all the other changes that are.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Hard for people to make.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: That would take the place of those things.

Amy Ray, FNP: So gut health is still super important and everything like that. Like, we don't want to just be like, eat whatever you want and take LDI.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: It still doesn't counteract sugar, y'all.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Totally.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: We're sleeping four hours a night. No, you're stressing your body out to the hill all the time.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Exactly.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah. So what does the session look like? Is it. Is it expensive? Is it time? Is it a time constraint? What does this look like?

Karen Callagy, PA-C: $40 per LDI. So it's very inexpensive. And it starts with a 45 minute consult. And we just, you know, get a background history, determine exactly what symptoms you're trying to combat. What's going on. Sometimes what they come to us for is isn't even what we initially end up treating them.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Oh I bet.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: And then we open this box. We're like, oh yeah, we probably should work on this first and then we'll get to this.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Amy Ray, FNP: So yeah, sometimes I pick like, hey, what's the easiest thing or what's the thing that's bothering you the most?

Amber Warren, PA-C: Start there.

Amy Ray, FNP: And start there. When people are super inflamed and they felt like they've tried everything and they're still just not getting anywhere, I'm like, all right, let's let's get a win. You know, like, let's work on, you know, a food sensitivity or something like that, or your allergies are terrible. And, you know, this time of year, like, let's, let's get you feeling better there And then we can start working on other, um, inflammatory responses, but super easy. It literally is a sterile antigen that is diluted in water. And, um, you stick it underneath your tongue and you hold it there for about 30 seconds.

Amber Warren, PA-C: And how many treatments until we see.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: It only takes one if you get the right dose.

Amber Warren, PA-C: If you hit it. Okay.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: It's not a cumulative buildup. It's it's literally if you choose if we choose again trial and error, we choose the right dose right off the bat. That's it. That's their core dose. It works. And they will message me maybe in 4 to 5 weeks saying, oh, my symptoms are coming back. I need another dose.

Amber Warren, PA-C: You dose?

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Yeah. We just draw it up and leave it up front and they pick it up. Once. You know that core dose, they don't need appointments all the time.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Cool.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah. But typically once we find the right dose, it should last about 6 to 7 weeks.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Okay.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Um, not always.

Amy Ray, FNP: But not always. Sometimes we can keep tweaking and stuff and they're just like, hey, it's only lasting 4 to 5 weeks. And we say, okay, well then that's going to be what you're going to end up doing.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Okay.

Amy Ray, FNP: Is that that 4 to 5 weeks? But um, yeah, it can be immediate or it can be several months. Like I've had some people who are like, you know, joint pain went away immediately. And others, I've been working for quite a while, and we're still trying to figure it out and maybe go to a different antigen.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Different.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Interesting. Yeah. Okay.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Um, I have two questions. Most common requests you have. Right. People wanting LDI, what's the most common issues you see. And then what what what are you seeing that responds best to it.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: I would say allergies.

Amy Ray, FNP: Allergy.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Environmental allergies.

Amy Ray, FNP: Environmental issues and food issues. Food intolerances. Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah. Those IgG food intolerances that people can't figure out.

Amy Ray, FNP: But I've had pretty good responses with skin issues and things like that.

Amber Warren, PA-C: I was going to say from a dermatological standpoint, there's 2800 types of erythema red rashes that we see.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: How about plaque psoriasis?

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah. So we use autoimmune.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: We use a skin fungal flora. Right. So it's it's a it's a fungal etiology. And so we start with there's only like 4 to 5 different. You find that you find the effect of those very quickly with that one. Because there's only five doses to choose from.

Amber Warren, PA-C: And it works well.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah I had one patient. She was in her 40s and she's had psoriasis since she was 14. And it didn't last long enough or so kind of tweaking the dose right now. But she called back and was like, I have never had any like decrease in my symptoms since I was 14 years old. And she's like a day later after she took the dose.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Within 24 hours.

Amy Ray, FNP: Within 24 hours, her scalp started to decrease inflammation.

Amber Warren, PA-C: And how how often is she needed to reduce?

Amy Ray, FNP: Um, like I said on this one, we're still kind of working on the dose. It lasted about a week, and so we're like, okay, well, we need to kind of tweak that.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Modify that.

Amy Ray, FNP: Modify that. So we're still working on that. But she was just super excited to get that that initial movement.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: There's a lot of buy in when it when you get results that quickly.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Especially when.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: It doesn't always happen.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Clear your inflammatory rash.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Okay. So sorry you answered the most common the most common type of issues that are coming to you. But what about what you're seeing the most beneficial results with? Same thing though.

Amy Ray, FNP: These are the easiest for us.

Amber Warren, PA-C: To treat. Okay.

Amy Ray, FNP: Because because it's you know, we have one that's specifically an environmental allergy, one that's specifically for Boise. That's been working fantastic. Um, with kind of the the spring allergies and stuff like that.

Amber Warren, PA-C: When you think about with allergies, environmental allergies, I mean, the risk benefit ratio there, right? You're getting them off of the steroids and the claytons and the mast cell stabilizers that have a lot of side effects long term. Like that's huge.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Yeah.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah. And then food.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah. Sorry.

Amy Ray, FNP: I had somebody who, um, Itching like severe itching with a lot of high histamine foods, and she's just thrilled that she can, like, pretty much eat anything that she wants now and doesn't have any itching and isn't having to take her antihistamines every day and stuff like that. But, um, autoimmune issues, um, you know, definitely a little harder. But I've seen, um, some great response with with that as well.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Promising.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Now autoimmune disease. I'm thinking more of the silent autoimmune diseases we deal with. So not like the RA that's inflammatory.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Right. But I'm thinking like more like Hashimoto's or some of those issues. Yeah, but you do, um, and you see the improvement to fatigue and brain fog and the thyroid.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Yes. Yeah. Okay. Hashimotos, it's the only one that we actually do testing. Right. Because sometimes they don't have symptoms yet, but they have antibodies and maybe a hundred or 200 or 600. But they might not be super symptomatic. So we have them take a dose and then we have them test their antibodies two weeks later.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Do you think it can turn around that quickly.

Amy Ray, FNP: That's how quickly. Yeah.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: It can. Yeah. Right.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah, yeah. Oh that's.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Pretty amazing.

Amy Ray, FNP: Oh yeah. We have patients report back within a week for most of the antigens. Because if you're going to get a response that's going to happen within that first week.

Amy Ray, FNP: Pretty quickly. And we're looking for a pretty significant response.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Right.

Amy Ray, FNP: Um, and so uh, there's a few, um, collagen, the Hashimoto's. Um, that's uh, and then some skin issues like alopecia, um, that it takes a little while to get, like hair growth back.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah, clinical results.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah. So it takes more like a couple of weeks on those.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: I've had really good success with the hormone LDI for PMS, PMDD and menstrual migraines. So it's it's not changing your hormone levels. It's changing the way your body is responding. Responds. Some women don't respond well to their own hormones and the fluctuations. Right.

Amber Warren, PA-C: So yeah, for sure.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: That's a huge win. I do that dosed every four weeks though for them.

Amber Warren, PA-C: To keep them. Steady, Eddy.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Yeah. That's life changing.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah. No, I could I could see that. That's amazing. Um, so you don't see any reactions? You don't see any reactions to these antigens.

Amy Ray, FNP: You can have a flare.

Amber Warren, PA-C: A flare of your flare, of your initial root cause issue.

Amy Ray, FNP: Okay. So that's the only kind of quote, you know, side effect is if we start an antigen too high of a dose and people have a flare, but a flare is like, hey, this is the worst I've ever felt, or this is what it felt like when I first started, you know, with this autoimmune issue or whatever. And it's usually short lived, usually a couple weeks.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: I flared myself with an environmental LDI, and I think my nose dripped for 12 hours. Nothing would help. And then it went away. But people who are medically complicated are Lyme patients, right? Lyme and mold. If we flare them and we go a lot slower with them, but if they flare, they might have brain fog, fatigue and a headache for a week. Right, right. Yeah. So it's a lot more serious of a side effect.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah. So then we have to wait seven weeks. So again, it's like, um, they think LDI is working on the T cells. And so the life of a T cell lasts about seven weeks. So we have to wait seven weeks. Kind of get that round of T cells gone in theory. And then we can redose.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: At a weaker dose.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah. Okay. So you said mold. That's when I hadn't thought about treating with LDI before. Especially patients who we all have them are living in mold can't afford or in in their in can't get out of the mold right. Or can't identify the mold that they're living in.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: I have a good example of that one. It doesn't treat mold illness. You still got to get them in a mold safe environment. You got to do binders all.

Amber Warren, PA-C: But at least to get them to a point where they can get out of their lease or get the house tested or move.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: But some people just have an allergy to mold. Right, right. Where they're not fully sick with mold illness, but their immune system, and they're just feeling under the weather, like, every like maybe a week out of the month. They just don't feel right. That's when I've had I have a patient I'm using that with and she's they're stuck in a lease in a rental. Yeah. And that seemed to help.

Amber Warren, PA-C: She's reacting. I'm also thinking about clients like I have a fair amount of clients, that they're fine because we've cleaned up the environment and detox them, but they're so sensitive and their genetics are so susceptible to mold illness that they go on vacation. Whether it's an Airbnb on the coast or a hotel that we know or I mean, there's mold everywhere in hotels and apartments in Airbnbs. So I would think so. Like would you treat with LDI when they get back if they were exposed.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: No, before they go before they go.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Take it.

Amber Warren, PA-C: So cool. Okay.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah. And sometimes mold can also just be a trigger for other things as well. So, you know, um, a a lot of people have been exposed to Lyme and most people don't react to Lyme, but then if they get triggered by something like mold, then that's when they start getting like joint pain and things like that. And so then, um, that's kind of The other difficulty is that sometimes the trigger is different than the antigen that we end up needing to use.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Amy Ray, FNP: Sort of thing.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: And what started it may not be what's currently the current trigger.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah. Like Covid is, is often a trigger for other.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Underlying root causes.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: What about reactivation of viruses, people who keep getting reactivated EBV or cytomegalovirus or.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: We have I mean, do we have Epstein-Barr? There is an EBV is there if we have that LDI.

Amy Ray, FNP: I think we just have HSV for viruses because Dr. Vincent, basically, he hasn't really gotten a whole lot of good response from the EBV, um, LDI.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Because that would be a big.

Amy Ray, FNP: One. Yeah. But things like Lyme and yeast and parasites and stuff like that, like that. Ldi tends to work well on people who, um, tend to have the that. Um.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Okay. So for EBV, like you said, Lyme, parasites, and what? Well, yeast. Well, that makes me think that that's just probably all root causes that reactivate EBV. Yeah. Right. Which we kind of know. And trauma.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Okay. Interesting. Cool. So that would be why those LDIs work.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: There's also an interesting one. I feel very underutilized. The upper respiratory infection. The URI LDI has cold viruses, flu and including Covid.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Cold virus and then Coxsackie.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Has anybody using this during Covid? Like had a Covid antigen.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: So Doctor Abraham came up. He came up with uh I think he was the first one to do it. For long Covid.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Did it work?

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Yeah. For many people you can't say across the board it works for everybody right?

Amber Warren, PA-C: Well, yeah.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: For people who lost their sense and taste a smell. I had a patient.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yes. I imagine that would help.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: For, um, long term respiratory following a virus a couple, a couple months later, she was still feeling short of breath, and she came back to me so excited. And she's like, I can smell again. And I thought I didn't know you couldn't smell. You didn't tell me that. And so, yeah, you can use it for that word like that.

Amy Ray, FNP: You use the URI for that?

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Yeah.

Amy Ray, FNP: Okay. Yeah. Interesting.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: It's also can be used preventative before travel. So you can actually I'll be doing that before I go back east this summer with my kids.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: We'll all do a URI LDI the dosing is different for if you're already actively having symptoms versus preventative okay. But it can be pretty effective.

Amber Warren, PA-C: So cool.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: So cool. Um, well, it sounds like we need to train more of you. More of us. More of us need to be trained. Right. Are you guys even seeing. Do you even have spots in your schedules for new clients to receive LDI therapy? That's probably one of my biggest concerns. Like, I'm currently interested in this, like, I don't even know if you guys are taking new patients. How do they get access to you? If clients, or if our community is listening to this and they're like this, I know this is what I need, I at least want to try it while I'm working.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: I have more open spaces on my telehealth day.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Okay.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: You don't need to get in person.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Need to come in.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Yeah, I tell you how to administer it to yourself because it's not a shot, right? So you just pick it up at the front desk when it's ready.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Okay, okay

Karen Callagy, PA-C: And we are taking new patients.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Wonderful.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Okay. That's so good to hear. So, out of our Boise clinic, Karen and Amy. Um, I know that also. I mean, we have so many practitioners from really all over the country that listen to this podcast, too. So what do practitioners need to know before they refer, um, a patient for LDI?

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Not the sky's the limit. Well, we could go through some of the conditions we treat with that we haven't mentioned yet.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Oh, I want to hear it all.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: I have my list.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Let's do it. What else do we treat?

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Not limited to this list.

Amber Warren, PA-C: I'm sure.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: So I can also tell them if it's okay to go to Doctor Vincent's website because he has. You can plug in a disease state or a condition or symptom, and it will tell you whether they have an LDI for that. And then you can come, you know.

Amber Warren, PA-C: What's his website?

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Globalimmunotherapy.com.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Okay.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Doctor Vincent.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yep.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: So that's helpful too.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Absolutely.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: But we already talked about food and allergies with the environment chemical or chemical sensitive patients. There's a chemical LDI. That's great.

Amy Ray, FNP: I had a patient who started headaches, um, when she, um. Or migraines when she took, um, the, the medication for the acne, Accutane with the Accutane. And so, um, I started her on the chemical ldi, and yes, I was like, I can play with my kids again for the first time.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: It's pretty neat.

Amy Ray, FNP: So it's really cool. But. Yeah. Sorry.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Go ahead. No, no. Uh, fibromyalgia, Lyme, Hashimoto's, RA, interstitial cystitis, chronic pain like that. It's amazing. Acne. Uh, IBS. Chronic diarrhea. Alopecia. Dyspepsia. Endometriosis. Psoriasis. Dandruff. Um. Trigeminal neuralgia.

Amy Ray, FNP: Wow.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Hsv one and two.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: So they don't have to be on suppression meds, right? Upper respiratory Infections. We will be getting the varicella LDI that can help with shingles and post-traumatic neuralgia. Hans. Pandas with the strep LDI urticaria. Asthma. Migraines EMF sensitivity chemical LDI helps with that.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Okay I'm going to refer you someone tomorrow.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Rosacea, ibd, osteoarthritis, collagen LDI. ADHD for some people. Um Lichen planus. Eosinophilic esophagitis. Huge.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Well, you're just I mean, you're naming so many conditions that are hard to treat.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Right?

Amber Warren, PA-C: Not only conventionally, but from a functional medicine perspective, too. So if you can move the needle for some of these clients, it can be really huge. Sorry. Keep going.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: No. You're good. Recurring, you know styes, boils, folliculitis, Hydradenitis. Teva. Oh, yes.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Correct. Okay. Hsv.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: It is so painful and disfiguring. Yeah, people. Yeah. And that's a huge one. Impetigo. Um, you know, gallbladder issues. That's a food issue for sure. After you've had you know. Yeah. Potts anosmia. So lack of smell. Wildfire reactions. The chemical LDI.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Chemical? Yeah.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Uh, Sibo, some people respond to the food one. Mhm. Tendonitis, plantar fasciitis and label tears. That's I mean again that's styes. Styes. Yeah. Where people get recurring styes.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Amy Ray, FNP: Or that's a quick easy treatment is to come in and do an LDI for a stye.

Amber Warren, PA-C: As opposed to putting steroids on a very already thin layer of skin.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Warm compresses aren't.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Enough. Yeah. Which is often the case. Mhm. Oh that's just so neat. Oh I feel like do you guys have any other success stories to share. You've shared some really incredible ones. Anything else you can think of?

Karen Callagy, PA-C: A lot. There's easy ones with food and environmental. I think the ones that stick out in my mind are that, you know, the PMDD, these women who are depressed or suicidal. The week for the period. Yeah, that's that's a big problem.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah it is.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: So it works really well.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Or postpartum depression too.

Amy Ray, FNP: I haven't tried that yet.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: I haven't, I still usually focus on you know, well that's a whole other podcast. But you know, the zinc and copper and all those things. Minerals that get depleted and all that. But, um, yeah, we could try that. That'd be open to that. Chronic UTIs, um, you know, not just post. I'm not talking due to atrophy and postmenopausal women just there are some women who are just prone to UTIs their whole life, and that could be their reaction to Proteus or Klebsiella E coli.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Or an anatomy issue. And they're just more likely to react to something to.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: So they're sensitive. Yeah. Just improving getting people off meds. They don't suppression meds that they don't need to be on. Yeah that's key.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah. And they don't actually as long as they have some symptoms they don't have to get off their suppression meds right away.

Amber Warren, PA-C: So you don't like they don't aren't worried we're going to pull the rug out from under them.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah exactly. And even food sensitivities, you know, we say all right, keep those out of your diet until about a week later and then test, so it's not feeling like you're miserable while you're waiting to kind of see it.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Then you reintroduce to see how you do.

Amy Ray, FNP: Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: So neat. So anything we didn't touch on that you feel is really valid or valuable to share about LDI.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: I'm trying to think probably just knowing that for most people it's a little bit of a journey. It's, you know, it's trial and error. So you got to be patient. The patient has to be really intuitive and able to interpret their response. I spend a lot of time talking about, okay, this is your normal flare response, but a flare to LDI will be exponentially worse. Yeah. You know, because they'll say, well, I and I flared and then we dive in and dissect that. What does that mean? Well, I had my symptoms, but that's your normal, right. That's that means it was not an effective dose. And we need to go stronger.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Right.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: So it takes time for them to learn like the data we're really looking for so we can make the educated decision on do we need to go stronger. Do we need to repeat this and just make sure at this dose it was that an actual flare?

Amber Warren, PA-C: Yeah.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: That's the key point.

Amy Ray, FNP: It's just they need really good communication is definitely helpful. And sometimes it's hard to kind of pull that out of patients because they feel they're so nervous about flaring. So they think that like.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Any little thing is a flare.

Amy Ray, FNP: Any little thing is a flare.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Or if they get sick and they're trying to.

Amy Ray, FNP: Oh yeah. And that's the other part that's hard because you know, I'll have the variables are like.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Too many variables.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Too many variables.

Amy Ray, FNP: Well I started my period right after I took it. And so I don't really know.

Amber Warren, PA-C: I had a traumatic event or a stressful event.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Or I ate Thai food. And I took the food LDI and I have bloating and I don't know what did what. Right. So let me just repeat it in seven weeks at the same dose.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Okay, let those T cells burn out and just try again. Yeah that makes sense. Exactly. So interesting. So cool. Wow wow wow. So amazing. Well, I'm thankful that you guys got trained. How incredible to be able to offer this modality for our community and for our clients.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Yeah.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Thank you for your time and your wisdom and your intention with what you're doing for our all of our patients at FMI.

Amy Ray, FNP: Absolutely.

Amber Warren, PA-C: Thanks for being with us.

Amy Ray, FNP: We love it.

Karen Callagy, PA-C: Thanks for having us.

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Amber Warren, PA-C: Thank you for listening to the Functional Medicine Foundations podcast. For more information on topics covered today. Specialties available at the FMI Center for Optimal Health and the highest quality of supplements, and more go to funmedfoundations.com.